Cavalry should be able to dismount

[Michael Gladius]

One of the big advantages of cavalry in the Middle Ages was that it was dual-purpose. Mounted men were useful in a ton of situations, but they could also dismount and fight on foot if the situation warranted it. Cavalry should have this ability in-game to increase their importance.

[Lighthope]

15 hours ago, Michael Gladius said:

One of the big advantages of cavalry in the Middle Ages was that it was dual-purpose. Mounted men were useful in a ton of situations, but they could also dismount and fight on foot if the situation warranted it. Cavalry should have this ability in-game to increase their importance.

Realistically, yes.  But in a video game, I am comfortable with their single purpose utility.  Makes the player make a choice as to having a fast unit or a slow unit.  If they can dismount, it takes that strategic choice away.

[DoVlaLegend]

13 hours ago, Lighthope said:

Realistically, yes.  But in a video game, I am comfortable with their single purpose utility.  Makes the player make a choice as to having a fast unit or a slow unit.  If they can dismount, it takes that strategic choice away.

I agree with you. Making them dismountable makes them OP, since nobody would take basic footman, because with cavalry they have 2 units in 1.

[William Blake]

5 hours ago, DoVlaLegend said:

I agree with you. Making them dismountable makes them OP, since nobody would take basic footman, because with cavalry they have 2 units in 1.

Cost is always a factor in everything. Double rations/triple rations, cost of horses, cost of reinforcements etc.

[Bigboi]

22 hours ago, William Blake said:

Cost is always a factor in everything. Double rations/triple rations, cost of horses, cost of reinforcements etc.

i agree, knigths were expensive to train, maintain and even to deploy on the battlefield. So i like idea of uber strong knigths bois ( like in Field of glory 2: medieval) that can destroy anything that is not armuored ( no that dumb spear beats horse...). For gameplay balance heavy knigths could be rare ( or in small numbers?). 

[WestAnt]

I assume you are talking about RT battles. It is an interesting idea, but I don't think it is a necessity.

 

Let me at least try some constructive criticism - What will happen when the knights dismount:

• When the knights dismount what happens to the horses are they still on the battlfield incontrolable?
• Can the opponent interact witht he dismounted horses?
• Is there a possibility that you enter the battle with 5 cavalary units and leave the battle with 2 cavalary and 2 knight units (presumably 2 units got their nights stolen or killedand the 5th unit died in the battle)? And of cours will it be possible to enter the batle with out cavalary units, then steal some from the opponents cavalary and leave the batle with cavalary units?
• How do you see the mouning/dismounitng units under arrow attack?

 

I think that this addition will cause more development time than it will benefit the diversity of options. Sounds like a good RT Battles update though, if the devs get time to make the battles as realistic as possible.

[Pallamannen]

On 2/24/2021 at 7:36 AM, WestAnt said:

I assume you are talking about RT battles. It is an interesting idea, but I don't think it is a necessity.

 

Let me at least try some constructive criticism - What will happen when the knights dismount:

• When the knights dismount what happens to the horses are they still on the battlfield incontrolable?
• Can the opponent interact witht he dismounted horses?
• Is there a possibility that you enter the battle with 5 cavalary units and leave the battle with 2 cavalary and 2 knight units (presumably 2 units got their nights stolen or killedand the 5th unit died in the battle)? And of cours will it be possible to enter the batle with out cavalary units, then steal some from the opponents cavalary and leave the batle with cavalary units?
• How do you see the mouning/dismounitng units under arrow attack?

 

I think that this addition will cause more development time than it will benefit the diversity of options. Sounds like a good RT Battles update though, if the devs get time to make the battles as realistic as possible.

Presumably the knights would dismount BEFORE the battle (i.e. during the deployment phase) and then be unable to mount until after the battle. If we are talking "realism" (which we perhaps should not be in this case) this is what would happen IRL: a knight may have mounted up before the battle or left their horse with their page.

However, I am not sure dismounted knights is very good for the gameplay since it gives so much flexibility to a unit. This can of course be compensated through costs and squad size, but it takes away from the strategic choices involved in putting together your army. "Realistically", there were of course no "Greatsword knights", "Mace knights" or "Sword-and-shield knights". Knights were proficient with several types of weapons, and would use different weapons depending on what they were doing. This is something which videogames ignore because it gives too much flexibility. KOH2 will (I presume) be "unrealistic" in this sense: knights will not be able to use several types of weapons. I think it is a good think if it also is "unrealistic" in that knights must choose between being on horseback or foot.

[sdgao]

I agree that the cost is a key point. I did a research on how much cost for a knight. During the Hundred Years War, a knight needed to spend more than a year of his territory's income to buy a horse, not to mention the armor. In KoH I, the cost of knights is so cheap. I suggest increase the cost of heavy cavalry at least 20 times.

[sdgao]

On 3/5/2021 at 8:06 AM, Pallamannen said:

Presumably the knights would dismount BEFORE the battle (i.e. during the deployment phase) and then be unable to mount until after the battle. If we are talking "realism" (which we perhaps should not be in this case) this is what would happen IRL: a knight may have mounted up before the battle or left their horse with their page.

However, I am not sure dismounted knights is very good for the gameplay since it gives so much flexibility to a unit. This can of course be compensated through costs and squad size, but it takes away from the strategic choices involved in putting together your army. "Realistically", there were of course no "Greatsword knights", "Mace knights" or "Sword-and-shield knights". Knights were proficient with several types of weapons, and would use different weapons depending on what they were doing. This is something which videogames ignore because it gives too much flexibility. KOH2 will (I presume) be "unrealistic" in this sense: knights will not be able to use several types of weapons. I think it is a good think if it also is "unrealistic" in that knights must choose between being on horseback or foot.

Dismount would be useful only in the town fighting. Besides, except for the Swiss lancers, basically no infantry could withstand the heavy cavalry.

[Michael Gladius]

On 2/21/2021 at 3:09 PM, Lighthope said:

Realistically, yes.  But in a video game, I am comfortable with their single purpose utility.  Makes the player make a choice as to having a fast unit or a slow unit.  If they can dismount, it takes that strategic choice away.

 

On 2/22/2021 at 4:21 AM, DoVlaLegend said:

I agree with you. Making them dismountable makes them OP, since nobody would take basic footman, because with cavalry they have 2 units in 1.

 

I would pair it with an ABCD personnel system, so that only a fraction of the population can be knights in the first place. Medieval warfare was fought by small military castes, not mass mobilization. 

 

On 3/30/2021 at 4:07 PM, sdgao said:

Dismount would be useful only in the town fighting. Besides, except for the Swiss lancers, basically no infantry could withstand the heavy cavalry.

 

Hilly and forested terrain would also be terrible for cavalry maneuvers/charges. Obstacles like stakes/caltrops or circled wagons also thwarted cavalry action.

[Lighthope]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:11 PM, Michael Gladius said:

Medieval warfare was fought by small military castes, not mass mobilization. 

Nobody is going to want to play a game with small military castes.  Big battles is where the fun is.

[Vlad Dracul]

I think that the real problem is not cavalry dismounting, but them mounting up again.

>; )

[Lighthope]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:40 PM, Vlad Dracul said:

I think that the real problem is not cavalry dismounting, but them mounting up again.

>; )

They didn't.  Once a knight was off his horse, that was it.

[Michael Gladius]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:51 PM, Lighthope said:

Nobody is going to want to play a game with small military castes.  Big battles is where the fun is.

Big battles should be more like a deck-building experience (same as the royal court). If my good soldiers are limited in numbers, then I won't use them as aggressively. In the original game, I could easily mobilize bigger armies than Napoleon in Russia and could replace them without disrupting my economy.

 

 

 

On 9/12/2021 at 7:29 PM, Lighthope said:

They didn't.  Once a knight was off his horse, that was it.

 

I'd be ok with preventing knights from re-mounting once they're on foot. Plenty of historical battles where they did, and stayed on foot until the pursuit.

[Vlad Dracul]

On 9/13/2021 at 5:29 AM, Lighthope said:

They didn't.  Once a knight was off his horse, that was it.

That's exactly the point (or the punchline) of my joke.

>; )

Edited September 14, 2021 by Vlad Dracul