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Weather seasons and terrain attrition


Gile
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Would you like to see weather seasons and terrain attrition in this game?  

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  1. 1. Would you like to see weather seasons and terrain attrition in this game?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
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    • Either way
      1


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Please include weather seasons and terrain attrition :( well it is a big deal not to have that in the game.

 

I would love to see weather effects. Attrition is a must. Snow, Rain, Mud, Extreme heat, Desert everything should have an effect on armies, terrain and climate you just have to put that in a game as this.

And there is hope judging by this picture.

 

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Edited by Gile
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Slight problem - the game is feature complete, or so we heard. 

Bigger problems:

  • Time in KoH2 is abstract. Meaning that you don't see years or months going by in game. And if you have a king lifespan say 20 minutes  (I don't know, taking numbers out of the blue). This would mean that in order to make it in proportion you will need winter to summer change every 30 seconds or so.
  • If you make seasons change much slower, your kings would die after ~3 winters which would be awkward.
  • If you make seasons just a visual candy people would rant about "how come these kings are so out of sync from seasons is this a fantasy middle earth"?
  • Economy is not season dependent. In order to make economy change with seasons you need fundamental change to game mechanics and balancing hell all over again.
  • If you make economy season dependent it would be really awkward not to have seasons affect military gameplay. Especially considering things like "how come its winter but in a tactical battle there is no snow", Or  "it is winter, but how come there is snow while I'm fighting in Africa" and so on. So you need seasons in all military aspects. That would be even more effort.

So if you look at all that and take into account that people already lost patience with devs roughly 5 times in the last 2 years, I would take a guess and say that seasons are not going to be in KoH2. At least initial release.

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On 2/23/2022 at 11:45 AM, William Blake said:

Slight problem - the game is feature complete, or so we heard. 

Bigger problems:

  • Time in KoH2 is abstract. Meaning that you don't see years or months going by in game. And if you have a king lifespan say 20 minutes  (I don't know, taking numbers out of the blue). This would mean that in order to make it in proportion you will need winter to summer change every 30 seconds or so.
  • If you make seasons change much slower, your kings would die after ~3 winters which would be awkward.
  • If you make seasons just a visual candy people would rant about "how come these kings are so out of sync from seasons is this a fantasy middle earth"?
  • Economy is not season dependent. In order to make economy change with seasons you need fundamental change to game mechanics and balancing hell all over again.
  • If you make economy season dependent it would be really awkward not to have seasons affect military gameplay. Especially considering things like "how come its winter but in a tactical battle there is no snow", Or  "it is winter, but how come there is snow while I'm fighting in Africa" and so on. So you need seasons in all military aspects. That would be even more effort.

So if you look at all that and take into account that people already lost patience with devs roughly 5 times in the last 2 years, I would take a guess and say that seasons are not going to be in KoH2. At least initial release.

You must be fun at parties.

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On 2/23/2022 at 4:45 AM, William Blake said:

Slight problem - the game is feature complete, or so we heard. 

We don't know what features are included yet. So it may very well be that seasons are one of the features that are complete (and included).

On 2/23/2022 at 4:45 AM, William Blake said:

Bigger problems:

  • Time in KoH2 is abstract. Meaning that you don't see years or months going by in game. And if you have a king lifespan say 20 minutes  (I don't know, taking numbers out of the blue). This would mean that in order to make it in proportion you will need winter to summer change every 30 seconds or so.
  • If you make seasons change much slower, your kings would die after ~3 winters which would be awkward.
  • If you make seasons just a visual candy people would rant about "how come these kings are so out of sync from seasons is this a fantasy middle earth"?
  • Economy is not season dependent. In order to make economy change with seasons you need fundamental change to game mechanics and balancing hell all over again.
  • If you make economy season dependent it would be really awkward not to have seasons affect military gameplay. Especially considering things like "how come its winter but in a tactical battle there is no snow", Or  "it is winter, but how come there is snow while I'm fighting in Africa" and so on. So you need seasons in all military aspects. That would be even more effort.

All these points made by you build up onto the assumption that realism is more important than fun gameplay. This, of course, is not true, as in the very first dev diary the devs did state that "Fun gameplay is our top priority, even above historical accuracy". Also, why do we need economy that is dependent on seasons? Like you yourself statet in another thread, that "This is pointless complexity. I don't understand why would you do that. As a player do I have any effect on this? No. Can I "invest" or "improve" or "cut costs" on that? No. So basically some random modifiers.".

I would love to have northern regions to be in either a constant state of winter or change season every 10-15 minutes of gameplay-time. Would be cool if some units could handle different climates better, like arabian archers having no movement penalty in deserts.

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12 hours ago, Zerg said:

We don't know what features are included yet. So it may very well be that seasons are one of the features that are complete (and included).

All these points made by you build up onto the assumption that realism is more important than fun gameplay. This, of course, is not true, as in the very first dev diary the devs did state that "Fun gameplay is our top priority, even above historical accuracy". Also, why do we need economy that is dependent on seasons? Like you yourself statet in another thread, that "This is pointless complexity. I don't understand why would you do that. As a player do I have any effect on this? No. Can I "invest" or "improve" or "cut costs" on that? No. So basically some random modifiers.".

I would love to have northern regions to be in either a constant state of winter or change season every 10-15 minutes of gameplay-time. Would be cool if some units could handle different climates better, like arabian archers having no movement penalty in deserts.

I have nothing against fun or complex systems if they matter. But this all this has nothing to do with what I want or not.

We are all sitting here for 2 years expecting the game to release "soon" or at least to have a date. It didn't happen yet. Meaning that the development speed or effort it takes to make it all work is more than we imagine. We saw multiple gameplay videos and a lot of dev talks. There were no seasons in the game. The game was never meant to be changing with seasons or weather. It is most unlikely that suddenly Black Sea will rethink all that and start adding weather and seasons. This is grand strategy game spanning for generations of kings and involving huge amount of countries all at once. Some snow or rain or hot breeze from a desert are too little to care about on that scale.

My original comment was just explaining why it is a problem "just to add winter" into a game which dev said is "feature complete". Star Citizen has a lot of features, all you could wish for, and keep adding. But with infinitely expanding features it is impossible to have an actual game release. And I would think Black Sea and THQ would rather like to have a release.

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On 2/22/2022 at 7:45 PM, William Blake said:

Bigger problems:

  • Time in KoH2 is abstract. Meaning that you don't see years or months going by in game. And if you have a king lifespan say 20 minutes  (I don't know, taking numbers out of the blue). This would mean that in order to make it in proportion you will need winter to summer change every 30 seconds or so.
  • If you make seasons change much slower, your kings would die after ~3 winters which would be awkward.
  • If you make seasons just a visual candy people would rant about "how come these kings are so out of sync from seasons is this a fantasy middle earth"?

I am willing to forgive a lack of sync between seasons and ages if we could get seasons in there.

Medieval II: Total War had seasons and I don't recall hearing those kind of complaints.

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