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FOR THE DEVELOPERS : economy / taxes / borders


astrakhan
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-> to be translated into English

Bonjour,

Je suis avec attention le développement de ce second opus de Knights Of Honor dont je suis un grand admirateur de la première version. Il me semble ici essentiel de soulever un point qui, je l’espère, a été pris en considération pour votre seconde version. Ce qui fait les frontières c'est l’impôt or en ce qui concerne le moyen age il est très difficile de tracer des délimitations claires des royaumes attendus que les vassaux pouvaient parfois être redevables de redevances à verser à plusieurs rois (exemples: le duché de bourgogne qui payait un tribu au Saint Empire Romain Germanique mais aussi au Royaume de France ou de Guillaume le conquérant qui était tout à la fois vassal du roi de France par le duché de Normandie et Roi d'Angleterre). Aussi, je ne sais pas comment est bâti l’impôt dans votre nouvelle version mais peut être faudrait il imaginer la vassalisation des territoires et une quotte-part d’impôt pour lequel le vassal serait redevable et plus cette quotte-part est importante, plus l'influence et l'assimilation serait grande. On se rapprocherait en ce sens du modèle féodal qui veut que le roi concède son droit à la perception de l’impôt au vassal qui en retour lui verse une partie de cet impôt d'où le fait que plusieurs rois peuvent revendiquer une même terre, ce qui fut source de guerres incessantes.

Bon courage a vous en espérant pouvoir encore passer de nombreuses nuits blanches sur ce nouvel opus.

Bien cordialement

BENJAMIN

benjaminca@outlook.fr

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12 minutes ago, astrakhan said:

Ce qui fait les frontières c'est l’impôt or en ce qui concerne le moyen age il est très difficile de tracer des délimitations claires des royaumes attendus que les vassaux pouvaient parfois être redevables de redevances à verser à plusieurs rois (exemples: le duché de bourgogne qui payait un tribu au Saint Empire Romain Germanique mais aussi au Royaume de France ou de Guillaume le conquérant qui était tout à la fois vassal du roi de France par le duché de Normandie et Roi d'Angleterre). Aussi, je ne sais pas comment est bâti l’impôt dans votre nouvelle version mais peut être faudrait il imaginer la vassalisation des territoires et une quotte-part d’impôt pour lequel le vassal serait redevable et plus cette quotte-part est importante, plus l'influence et l'assimilation serait grande.

English translation: What makes the borders is the gold tax with regard to the middle ages it is very difficult to draw clear delimitations of the kingdoms expected that the vassals could sometimes be liable for royalties to be paid to several kings (examples: the duchy Burgundy who paid a tribe to the Holy Roman Empire but also to the Kingdom of France or William the conqueror who was both vassal of the King of France by the Duchy of Normandy and King of England). Also, I do not know how the tax is built in your new version but perhaps it would be necessary to imagine the vassalization of the territories and a tax quota for which the vassal would be liable and the more this quota is important, the more influence and assimilation would be great.

I don't think that Knights of Honour will split up vassalage like that.  Adds an unnecessary complexity to the game when really it's about taking over kingdoms and slaughtering armies.

Historically what you say is true, but I don't see it adding much to gameplay.

Traduction française: Je ne pense pas que les Chevaliers d'honneur se sépareront comme ça. Ajoute une complexité inutile au jeu quand il s'agit vraiment de prendre le contrôle de royaumes et d'abattre des armées.

Historiquement, ce que vous dites est vrai, mais je ne vois pas que cela ajoute beaucoup au gameplay.

Edited by Lighthope
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French -> to English with Deepl

Three points:

In my opinion, the question can easily be answered as follows:
1 - The greater the degree of assimilation, the greater the level of tax levied in relation to a threshold set for the whole kingdom.
2 - If several kingdoms have an influence on a province, then each one could collect revenues proportional to their level of influence and tax threshold (which would be completely automatic, therefore effortless: the player sets a tax threshold for the whole kingdom and collects according to his level of influence).
3 - It would be necessary to develop a little the principle of taxes where in the previous version we had: nothing, weak, strong. But there it would be necessary to have a wider scale going for example from 0 to 10 knowing that 0 would generate well-being and 10 would generate discontent. Everything should therefore be based on a subtle alchemy between degree of assimilation, well-being and level of taxation.

Simple and terribly interesting as a balance to manage !!!

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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15 hours ago, astrakhan said:

In my opinion, the question can easily be answered as follows:
1 - The greater the degree of assimilation, the greater the level of tax levied in relation to a threshold set for the whole kingdom.
2 - If several kingdoms have an influence on a province, then each one could collect revenues proportional to their level of influence and tax threshold (which would be completely automatic, therefore effortless: the player sets a tax threshold for the whole kingdom and collects according to his level of influence).
3 - It would be necessary to develop a little the principle of taxes where in the previous version we had: nothing, weak, strong. But there it would be necessary to have a wider scale going for example from 0 to 10 knowing that 0 would generate well-being and 10 would generate discontent. Everything should therefore be based on a subtle alchemy between degree of assimilation, well-being and level of taxation.

Simple and terribly interesting as a balance to manage !!!

For point 1, that would be an interesting mechanic.  Not historically accurate, but certainly could add a degree of difficulty.  It would make the player pay more attention to assimilation as opposed to just worrying about rebellion.

I don't like point 2.  Provence don't pay taxes to kingdoms that influence it.  They pay taxes to the kingdom that has control of it.  I understand what you are trying to accomplish, but a kingdom should not reap a financial benefit if they don't own it.

Point 3: I think such a scale would be bordering on micromanagement.  None, weak, strong is enough variety.  What is the real difference between a 7 and an 8 tax rate other than spreadsheet mathematics?  But there is a world of difference between None, Weak, and Strong.

=====================

Pour le point 1, ce serait un mécanicien intéressant. Pas historiquement exact, mais pourrait certainement ajouter un certain degré de difficulté. Cela inciterait le joueur à accorder plus d'attention à l'assimilation qu'au lieu de simplement se soucier de la rébellion.

Je n'aime pas le point 2. La Provence ne paie pas d'impôts aux royaumes qui l'influencent. Ils paient des impôts au royaume qui en a le contrôle. Je comprends ce que vous essayez d'accomplir, mais un royaume ne devrait pas récolter un avantage financier s'il ne le possède pas.

Point 3: Je pense qu'une telle échelle serait à la limite de la microgestion. Aucun, faible, fort est assez varié. Quelle est la vraie différence entre un taux d'imposition de 7 et 8 autre que les feuilles de calcul mathématiques? Mais il y a un monde de différence entre Aucun, Faible et Fort.

 

Edited by Lighthope
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