DevDiary 12 – Diplomacy Part 1 – Wars and Alliances

[Cynwulf]

I would like to see betrayal as an option however there would need to be severe consequences for a nations reputation. Which makes me wonder is there a reputation system for each nation a scale from honorable to Villainous?

[USArmyMan1982]

I love the idea of backstabbing allies. Nothing is ever black or white during diplomacy ... I like living in the gray area.

[Hurpyderp]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:59 PM, Lighthope said:

Again, that really doesn't matter when the ultimate goal is to conquer the world.

I like your idea, but it goes against the goal of the game.

I don't think so. While your goal might be to conquer all, other people might play tall. Or roleplay. In the end KoH is a big medieval sandbox and I never felt that in order to "win" i would need to conquest everything.

[CroatianKnight]

2 hours ago, Hurpyderp said:

I don't think so. While your goal might be to conquer all, other people might play tall. Or roleplay. In the end KoH is a big medieval sandbox and I never felt that in order to "win" i would need to conquest everything.

I completely agree! Conquering entire map not only feels very gamey but kind of very simplistic view of world domination. Yeah it is a goal and why not but again as soon as you take last province it is game over and you can't really continue. So I would rather conquer 60% of the map and try to see how long will the empire last. 

When I roleplay (in which I mean conquering land which makes sense to conquer. For example if I play as Venice I will conquer only coastal provinces and rule most of Eastern Mediterranean) I spend most of my wars also fixing border gores of other countries. Like Genoese province landlocked in the middle of Spain or Lithuania migrating to Balkans. This is why I support land claims mechanics. 

 

This is also why I support opinion mechanics because I can roleplay even more. For example if I play as Germany that only cares about military I could recreate Barbarossa or if I care only about opinion of cleregy I can play very religious Germany that cares mostly about crushades. Same as merchants I can play as Germany that has all the kingdom advantages and a lot of merchants and money. 

[Lighthope]

7 hours ago, CroatianKnight said:

When I roleplay (in which I mean conquering land which makes sense to conquer. For example if I play as Venice I will conquer only coastal provinces and rule most of Eastern Mediterranean) I spend most of my wars also fixing border gores of other countries. Like Genoese province landlocked in the middle of Spain or Lithuania migrating to Balkans. This is why I support land claims mechanics. 

Sure, you can certainly do all that, but that is now how the game is designed.  It's designed to "win".

[CroatianKnight]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:31 PM, Lighthope said:

Sure, you can certainly do all that, but that is now how the game is designed.  It's designed to "win".

Then why even bother with vasallage system or diplomacy if your goal is to grab all provinces anyway. I would then remove vasallage system altogether. If fact why not just make something like risk-board-game with no turns. Honestly this game is already 80% KoH 1 but better graphics + slightly bigger map but with worse borders. 

[Lighthope]

4 hours ago, CroatianKnight said:

Then why even bother with vasallage system or diplomacy if your goal is to grab all provinces anyway.

I've often wondered about vassalage myself, since the goal is conquest.  But vassalage does have advantages, such as getting some of their income.

They should add an option to count vassal countries as part of the conquest.

4 hours ago, CroatianKnight said:

Honestly this game is already 80% KoH 1 but better graphics + slightly bigger map but with worse borders. 

Based on the Developer Diaries, KoH2 has a lot more to it than KoH1.

[CroatianKnight]

On 8/7/2022 at 6:45 PM, Lighthope said:

 

They should add an option to count vassal countries as part of the conquest

This should definitely be in the game, this would make having a vassal sense. I mean it is basicly something like a puppet state. It would be cool to have your own world order and map paint. 

I really hope vasallage will be handled better than in the first game. For example some already stated to be able to stop your vassal fighting wars or making them peace out with other countries.

Also if you want to control everything then there should be an option to annex your vassal, besides that spy action to do that. So more ways to acquire land rather than just conquest. Or make ability to buy land, although from vassals it should be cheaper or just force them (although damages relations). Maybe ability to annex vassal if it has no heir. Or maybe if they reach -5 kingdom power and just becomes chaotic the vassal could be annexed. Just some ideas. 

[CroatianKnight]

On 8/7/2022 at 6:45 PM, Lighthope said:

 But vassalage does have advantages, such as getting some of their income.

They should add an option to count vassal countries as part of the conquest.

Also an idea I thought is that it should be possible is to put your army in your vassals towns and take food or maybe even men for army.

Another idea is to create vassals out of conquered territory. Although makes little sense in KoH except if vassalage counts as conquest.

I do hope AI is more reasonable in KoH2 because in the first game even if you conquered 90% of your enemy territories they sometimes refuse to peace out despite having no chance against you. So I just have to completely conquer them and either deal with rebels or give away provinces. Or you can just not conquer them but then you have to play long game of attrition (the more you are at war the unhappier the population is and rebels just start to be an epidemic) until they offer peace. So it would be neat if you can create a loyal puppet that you can later annex if you wish to do so.