Pagan can't build art school

[Dirk]

Pagan can not build art school in conquered Cathedrals or Great mosques. With this you can't have Fine arts and will be unable to get Kingdom Advantages victory.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Dirk
Spelling mistake

[Archiel]

Yeah, that's a feature not a bug.

It's intentional, and you're supposed to trade for it if possible.

You also can't build University or muslim equivalent, but you can at least conquer province that has it...

Edited July 28, 2023 by Archiel

[Dirk]

Nope, it is clearly a bug.

[Archiel]

It's intentional because what would be considered Pagan in Europe at those times were severely underdeveloped cultures in most cases, both scientifically and art wise, and/or really small, which is why it was so easy to subjugate them, and art was under patronage of either religion or wealthy individuals who were "religious" because state and church weren't split yet. Muslim also used religion and religious zeals as a tool, so...

Probably one of the more developed Pagan cultures would be Bosnia with Bosnian Church (while also having Orthodox and Catholic churches and religious institutes), which is... hard to define too, because Ottomans destroyed every info about it, other than what's left on a few monuments, some put it as Catholic, some as Orthodox, some as a mix, some as not an off shot Christian church at all, different countries and organization considered it differently at the time too, some considered it valid, some Pagan, and some even considered later as one of the origins/influences for Protestant church.
The reason why it was more developed than majority, is basically due to it's positioning, size, trade routes, and mixed population too, so it developed more too.

Again it's hard if it was Pagan, and all of it's art is contained on Stećak type of monument, and is reaaaaaaly low quality too. Like if you saw it, you'd think it's prehistoric maybe. lol
What additionally makes it difficult, is that there were a few Pagan pantheons on Balkan peninsula too... so any of them could've been a part of belief too.

Pagan art could also be defined as art that predates Christianity (which would also include ancient greek, roman, egyptian... art too).
But basically in what game would cover, Pagan art was either ornamental, or decorative, or... craft.
You have no great sculptors and painters.
 

Even in KoH1 Pagans had hard time gaining Books (so it was hard to train Knights), there was no Piety income either, and there was no Temple equivalent of Cathedral/Grand Mosque there either, so no... it's not a bug.

Additionally Kingdom Advantages would be sort of Economic Victory, Pagan Kingdoms had trade bans imposed on them too, or were in most cases highly aggressive, bent on conquering, pillaging, stealing, and no one trusted them anyway. So such victory wouldn't make much sense. Which again... is additionally marked by gold % penalty on income.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Archiel

[CroatianKnight]

On 7/28/2023 at 4:08 PM, Archiel said:

It's intentional because what would be considered Pagan in Europe at those times were severely underdeveloped cultures in most cases, both scientifically and art wise, and/or really small, which is why it was so easy to subjugate them, and art was under patronage of either religion or wealthy individuals who were "religious" because state and church weren't split yet. Muslim also used religion and religious zeals as a tool, so...

Probably one of the more developed Pagan cultures would be Bosnia with Bosnian Church (while also having Orthodox and Catholic churches and religious institutes), which is... hard to define too, because Ottomans destroyed every info about it, other than what's left on a few monuments, some put it as Catholic, some as Orthodox, some as a mix, some as not an off shot Christian church at all, different countries and organization considered it differently at the time too, some considered it valid, some Pagan, and some even considered later as one of the origins/influences for Protestant church.
The reason why it was more developed than majority, is basically due to it's positioning, size, trade routes, and mixed population too, so it developed more too.

Again it's hard if it was Pagan, and all of it's art is contained on Stećak type of monument, and is reaaaaaaly low quality too. Like if you saw it, you'd think it's prehistoric maybe. lol
What additionally makes it difficult, is that there were a few Pagan pantheons on Balkan peninsula too... so any of them could've been a part of belief too.

Pagan art could also be defined as art that predates Christianity (which would also include ancient greek, roman, egyptian... art too).
But basically in what game would cover, Pagan art was either ornamental, or decorative, or... craft.
You have no great sculptors and painters.
 

Even in KoH1 Pagans had hard time gaining Books (so it was hard to train Knights), there was no Piety income either, and there was no Temple equivalent of Cathedral/Grand Mosque there either, so no... it's not a bug.

Additionally Kingdom Advantages would be sort of Economic Victory, Pagan Kingdoms had trade bans imposed on them too, or were in most cases highly aggressive, bent on conquering, pillaging, stealing, and no one trusted them anyway. So such victory wouldn't make much sense. Which again... is additionally marked by gold % penalty on income.

I think art school and school in general should be related to how developed the kingdom is rather what religion it is. However it is true paganism in the game is meant more like primitive cultures, rather than just religion. But I don't think they should be completely unable to have art school.