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DevDiary 22 - Religion: Christianity


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Hello friends and welcome to the 22nd DevDiary for “Knights of Honor II: Sovereign”! We decided to return to the Religion topic, started in DevDIary 20 in which we made an overview about the common Cleric actions and religion effects. Today we will take a closer look at Christianity – the religion, followed by the most European kingdoms at the historical period and region the game takes place in.

In KoH2:S, there are two vastly different branches (families) of Christianity – Catholicism and Orthodoxy. As we mentioned earlier, we’ve chosen this simplified model after considering and experimenting with a lot of variants and sub-branches, since we felt it serves best the purposes of the gameplay. Further segmentation seemed to bring a lot of complexity for little gameplay and strategical effect.

Catholic kingdoms have arguably the best starting bonuses – they have trading and commercial bonuses, as well as lower cost for buildings. Their religious gameplay is centered around the Papacy – good relations with it can lead to a lot of benefits, like promoting Clerics to Cardinals, which have significant bonuses on piety and books production, as well as on their actions. Eventually, when black smoke rises above the Sistine Chapel, one of the Cardinals is chosen to become the new Pope. In case the new Pope is not from the Papacy, the kingdom from which he was selected from loses him as a knight in their royal court, but now have new special actions available only to those very close to the Pope- like instigating a crusade or requesting a kingdom to be excommunicated.

02_UI_Illustration_NewCrusade_.png.e234d508142da042ff72f5d9ce6982e4.png

When a Crusade starts, a strong army is assigned to a leader, chosen among those army leaders who are deemed worthy. Then the army marches (without any player’s or kingdom’s control) towards a chosen excommunicated or heathen kingdom. This powerful army will try to destroy its target, usually providing control over the conquered towns either to the kingdom of its leader, or to the Papacy. Sometimes, especially when their quest goes wrong, Crusades go rogue and can establish their own kingdom or simply turn to (in)famous rebels. Things can go wrong in quite a few ways, especially with some help, like assassinating its leader, pulling some strings with a spy to divert it, or destroying the Papacy just to name a few.

03_UI_Illustration_CrusadeDefeated_.png.864085ae306599a2e87f718d543f1764.png

Playing as a Catholic kingdom is not as easy as it sounds, though. Its Clergy is the most demanding and easiest to offend – actions like attacking other Catholics and refusing Papacy demands will reduce Clergy opinion, as well as the relations with the Papacy. And Papacy’s demands are not always easy to fulfill – for example, gold is often demanded for crusades and the sums are definitely not neglectable. Getting excommunicated is also disastrous, as Catholics, hated and declared as an enemy to all other Catholics, may lead to a lot of problems and it is hard to receive an absolution from the Holy See.

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There is also the danger that someone will overtake Rome and destroy the Papacy – regardless of the religion of the conqueror, the Papacy cannot exist while another kingdom holds Rome. This, of course, brings a lot of hatred towards the conqueror from all Catholic kingdoms and they will struggle to drive the invaders out and restore it. This will bring the liberator a lot of bonuses if accomplished– relations with the Papacy and the whole Catholic world, as well as significantly increased Clergy opinion.

Orthodox kingdoms have the highest books production. Their gameplay revolves around the relations with the Ecumenical Patriarchy and/or having an Autocephalous (independent) church. Claiming Autocephaly is not an easy task to do, though, as it requires high crown authority, a very experienced Cleric, and some sort of influence over the kingdom controlling Constantinople and the Ecumenical Patriarchy. The more autocephalous kingdoms there are, the harder it gets for a new one to be recognized as such, so usually reducing their numbers by force or espionage is usually a necessity.

Unlike in the case with Rome, controlling Constantinople means controlling the Ecumenical Patriarchy and the Ecumenical Patriarch himself. Every Patriarch, especially the Ecumenical, is a very powerful cleric with significant bonuses on books and piety production, as well as on their actions. Patriarchs also provide a few random bonuses (which significantly vary between one patriarch to another) to the entire kingdom. Orthodox kingdoms can choose among their clerics and a few characters, outside their court, to succeed the Patriarch title, once the previous one dies.

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Both Catholic and Orthodox kingdoms can send their Clerics on missions in Constantinople AND Rome, where they get different bonuses depending on their sub-religion – books, piety, commerce and relations. If they are in the religious center of their own Church, the bonuses are increased, based on their level. Being on such missions allocates their full attention, but when they are needed for something else, they can quickly return to their kingdom and once the tasks at hand are done, they can easily return to the religious centers. In this aspect, Christian Clerics are more versatile to play with than Scholars and Shamans, as well as Merchants, who, in comparison, require more time to build up a good trade with a kingdom and lose that progress when they are recalled.

We’d like to hear what you guys think – which one do you think will be your preferred religion, or would you prefer to experiment and try all of them? Are you looking forward to leading mighty crusades, or do you prefer to pick kingdoms, following less demanding religions than Catholicism and focus on other kingdom aspects?

We’ll talk more about Christianity in our DevStream on Thursday, October 14th, @ 3:00 PM GMT / 11:00 AM EST and we’ll be thrilled if you join in our conversation. You can come and repent, ask for forgiveness, but Though Shalt Not ask for the release date! The Twitch stream will be hosted on the THQ Nordic channel: http://twitch.tv/thqnordic and we’ll be grabbing responses from this post as well as answering questions live during the stream.

Next time, if the Pope allows it, we will return to the topic of Multiplayer, talking more about starting conditions, rules and how those can shape each campaign. Until then, we bid thee farewell! Go forth and conquer!


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  • 2 weeks later...

As far as I can tell there is not much difference to the first game (which isn't bad in my opinion). I just wanted to ask how hard it will be to let one of your clerics become the next pope? In the first game it was fairly easy. 

Also, please make sure that there is a timer to start crusades with your puppet-pope. It was fun to start 6 simultaneous crusades in the first game but it probably would suck when one player is non-christian and gets spammed with crusades. 

Edited by Zerg
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Очень хочу чтобы игра вышла крутой, вы молодцы!
Я готов ждать и до 2022-2023 года, лишь бы был шедевр 🙂
__________________________________________________________
I really want the game to come out cool, you are great!
I am ready to wait until 2022-2023, if only there was a masterpiece 🙂

Edited by DoMoVoI
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Can you explain more clearly how a leader for a crusade is selected? Does the leader come from your current Royal court Knight's? One of my biggest angers in KOH 1 was not having control of my marshals when the pope called them into a crusade, because more then often my 5 star marshal would just find a way to suicide. Have you considered this? 

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Thanks for the latest diary! Really apreciate the artwork which is always very nice. I think it is a good idea to being able to send Clerics to the Papacy for bonus missions. In KoH 1 you had them just sitting around at court a lot.

 

I wanna ask something regarding Clerics becoming Cardinals: Do you need anything else for them besides good relations with the Papacy? Maybe certain skills, "time on duty", experience level, completed bonus missions?

 

*actually there has to be white smoke above the Sistine Chapel. Black smokes means no new pope could get elected and they have to vote again. (sorry for smart assing 😇 )

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Interesting! Both gameplays look cool and a bit more diverse than in KoH1. Can't wait to hear from the team in next devstream, and to dive more into that topic!

 

Several questions:

- Will Papal States be playable?

- If the Pope owns Rome and another province, but eventually lose Rome, does the Papacy still disappear? Does the Papal States remain?

- Will it be easy to add and modify Religious Centers, so that catholic clerics do not only go to Rome, but also for example to Santiago de Compostella, or to Canterbury? Same for Orthodox, with Antioch or Mount Athos for instance?

- What about peaceful pilgrimages (to Santiago, Rome, Jerusalem...)? Is there a mechanic for it, or do you plan to make one? I mean, regardless of one's religion, but as a mechanic available to Christians and Muslims, depending only on their own religious centers.

 

See you Thursday! Thanks again for the mechanics unveiled! I and the other fans hope everyone's fine!

Edited by Calliope
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Even though I enjoy your DevDiaries and I enjoyed this one as well. You are boring people with things they are not asking. We are asking to see live battles and to know when is release date! Respect your customers!

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   Neat. I am really forward to this! On the other hand I too wonder how is crusader selected. Please don't make it random like in KoH1 but rather something like electing ecumenical patriarch like shown on the image.

And I too wonder what happens if Papacy loses Rome but is still extant somewhere on the map? 

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Would be nice to have an option to break from the Catholic Church and establish your own religion just like what King Henry VIII did. Yeah, I know you will be excommunicated and hated by Catholic countries but I'm sure relations with those countries can be re-established through economic alliance and providing economic benefits or military alliance and providing military aid maybe?  

My next suggestion is not related to religion but since I am already here so I will just take the opportunity to suggest for you guys to add marriage to game. Like Kings negotiating an arranged marriage for their children for economic and or military alliance purposes? I hope you will think about that. 

Also, please just release the game already. A lot of us are happy to play it already while waiting for you guys to slowly release updates to make the game better. 

Edited by Enigma
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